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Building height : 3/4/2009

Less is More

Less is More

Bldg hts : 3/4/2009

C'mpn, SB - ya gotta grow up! Sprawl is the urban equivalent of a Twinkies diet - it makes residents soft and more energy dependent, and not very bright (producing folks inclined to believe that statements like "less is more" are witty and meaningful".

Observer

Keep SB Unique : 3/4/2009

All this talk about how SB needs to "grow up" misses the point. There are lots of large cities, but we want to keep our city small. We like living in a city that is not overbuilt and overcrowded. There are lots of choices for people who want to live in a larger city and there are advantages to living in a city with more people. That's fine. But I think if you prefer to live in a large city, then move there instead of trying to make SB into yet another drone of an LA city.

Let us find our own way. : 3/4/2009

Do you really want Sacramento controlling your planning process? I don't. Plan Santa Barbara is not something residents want. It's something Sacramento mandated because locals would never accept it from here. Just because Sacramento is dysfunctional doesn't mean we have to go along with it. The City Council needs to decide between the residents or a process that was not initiated from here. I for one, want the voters to decide without interference.

SB Observer

building height : 3/4/2009

Sb needs to grow up or else more and more sprawl like the Naples project.

ag

Building Vertical : 3/4/2009

Just where is all this sprawl going to occur? answer: Its not, because the South Coast is already fully built out and there is no land to sprawl onto. and don't say Naples as naples is but a handful of homes that are going to be built anyway whether Santa Barbara grows vertical or not.

Just say no to smart growth

Endless Density : 3/4/2009

This initiative only applies within city limits which has no more open space to build on. Politicians need to stop appeasing State growth pressures and just say no to unwanted growth.

John Denver

taking care of our own : 3/4/2009

This beautiful town has matured to its current state under a 60 foot height limit. Regarding the comments on the General Plan update, if you attended the workshops you probably observed that this plan reflects the desires of our own community not the state. The goal of building more housing is to provide reasonably priced homes for our employees to live. Right now we export our housing demand to surrounding communities...the communiting decreases our air quaility and clogs our highways. Exporting housing is unsustainable and irresponsible, in my humble opinion.

Usual Suspects : 3/4/2009

You'll notice that it is the same group of councilpeople that are promoting varies attempts to quash the height limit that also pushed through city employee raises in the face of over $6 million budget deficit. These people are unbelievable

Gordo

Voters Should Decide : 3/4/2009

No on attends those workshops except people with an agenda. They in no way reflect the the desires of the people who actually live in Santa Barbara. Stop pushing this pro-growth, bureaucratic nonsense. Probably 98% of the people who live here didn't attend those phony workshops that placate the public. However 15,000 people who live here do want to vote for height limits. Let's see if the City Council can let this happen without getting in the way. If we vote yes or no, so be it, but you need to trust the voters. Housing will never be cheap in a beautiful place like Santa Barbara. Don't destroy our beauty just so you can say you were fair and equitable.

Riviera

: 3/4/2009

Building heights are a matter of aesthetics and density. It is not about developers “gone wild”, spoiling Santa Barbara or ruining its character. Statements like “it will change our small town character” are in fact ridiculous. Most of the city’s tallest buildings were built when the city was an actual real small town of about 25,000. The Granada, Balboa, Court House, the old Carrillo hotel, the old Potter (burned down 1921), the Lyon building all exceed the current 60 foot limit and were all built before 1930’s. So please explain how a city with 3.5 times that population (6 times, if you count the metro area) can find these buildings too tall? The one characteristic that set Santa Barbara apart from the two dimensional, flat, featureless, sprawling, identity less, suburban mess of southern California was a dense downtown with multistoried buildings. And what do the building height limiters propose? Turn Santa Barbara into a shallow, sprawling, stick and stucco, suburban tourist trap, an extension of LA, complete with gangs. The bulky buildings so many are opposed to right now are in fact a product of the very limits that have been imposed. Cut the height to 40 feet and eventually every building will be 40 feet tall, sprawling in every direction. The vertical height of buildings in a downtown setting gives one a sense of greatness and importance. Opening up view corridors and having large set backs if over done diminish the urban landscape. But saying such things today is considered sacrilege by the suburban mind set of contemporaries. Yes, tall building can be over done too. But that is no reason to cut your nose off to spite your face.

AN50

Building height limit : 3/5/2009

I like the fact that Santa Barbara offers such variety: mountains, ocean, museums, hiking trails, great restaurants, great parks, great architecture, great shopping, interesting mix of people. A dense but relatively small urban core is part of that variety. It allows a greater mix of those interesting people to be part of Santa Barbara. And if the sight of a 60' building causes you such distress, then just walk one block away; you can't see the tall buildings on Chapala from State St. A reasonable sprinkling of 60' buildings will not be the end of the world. How many times have you heard complaints about the Granada building in the last 80 years?

Steve Johnson

??? : 3/5/2009

The planning Commission can reject any design they don't like be it bulky or tall. Why have they let us down?

Swim

Density doesn't work : 3/5/2009

Density doesn't work. Check it out. All over the country the areas with the most population per acre (or sq mile) also has the most crime. Density doesn't work!

Fear and Loathing in SB : 3/5/2009

I’ve heard this “density doesn’t work” argument before. It is baseless. The young man who was beaten by gangbangers with a cinder block was in a single family, low density neighborhood. Yes, NYC has a higher amount of crime and is very dense. However, LA has a higher rate of crime and is much lower in density. Density has a place in a city and that is at its core, the very place limits are to be imposed. The unbelievable stupidity of this is mind numbing. It is antithetical to the natural development of an urban area like a city. Concentrating commerce, business, culture, governance and living space at the core of a city enhances the community and intimacy of the city. Yes it requires higher density in multi storied buildings. But why would you want anything less? Why on God’s green earth would you want your trip downtown to be no different than a trip to a low density sprawling strip mall? I am not advocating turning SB into Manhattan, just that we reflect on what damage limiting building heights does to the overall experience and feel of being “downtown”, rather than the shopping mall. None of this of course comes close to explaining the exasperating unintentional consequences of squashing the central core down and pushing everything out (aka those sprawling block long 3 story mixed use buildings going up everywhere). Think about this, the 3 to 4 story mixed use building on Chapala that covers nearly a third of the entire block could have been put into a 6 story building covering one fifth the area. A much smaller foot print and at street level you would never realize the height difference. Further, you could move that building closer to the core and it would be among its neighboring buildings of equal height so as to not become a monument unto itself. And that again raises yet another unintended consequence of the limits. No new great structures like the Court House will ever be built again! What does that say about us as a people and a culture? The best has come and gone? We can no longer allow greater achievements than our ancestors? We have grown accustom to a lower standard and mediocrity? These limits preserve death, not life. They inculcate fear and small mindedness. They perpetuate a madness which has at its roots a fear of living life and accepting the changes that come with it. Limiting building heights will do nothing but bury this town and further erode any semblance of a real live city.

AN50

height : 3/5/2009

Consider this fact: the vast majority of voters in Santa Barbara love our city just the way it is and come November are going to vote, overwhelmingly, to lower the allowed building heights, and preserve our low density small town character and quality of life. To those who desire tall buildings I say: "Majority rules, so suck it up? Like it, or move!"

Just say no to high density smart growth

Body Politic : 3/5/2009

I love my wife, son and dog, just the way they are. However, like all living things and a city is a living thing, they will grow, change and adapt. Killing something you love out of fear of change and preserving it so that only its appearance never changes is really sick. Following the other lemmings in this regard is also sick. This height issue has become a sick obsession by some of you. When rebuttal arguments consist of threats or punitive remarks rather than sound rational ones, then one has to wonder what direction this will take us.

AN50

Unwanted Growth : 3/5/2009

If you need to design and build tall buildings or short ones, just go to a place where there is a demand for it, such as L.A., Dallas, or Chicago. We don't want your expertise here. So quit trying to cram growth down our City Council and the citizens of Santa Barbara. If you want to live here, be useful and do something important like cleaning the creeks, or helping the mentally ill.

Jean

Unwanted Mental Disorders : 3/5/2009

Jean if doing those things is really important to you then by all means knock your self out. But first get over this irrational connection between growth and building aesthetics. You won’t do the mentally ill one bit of good dragging your obsessive delusion about growth around like a ball and chain.

AN50

Who owns this town : 3/6/2009

Just who owns this city is this anyway? The voters own it . The pro smart growth city planning staff and City Council don't own it. Join the 11,000 voters and vote yes on the citizens initiative to lower building heights to 40 feet and join the 11,000 voters and vote No on the Council's competing alternative ballot measure which is nothing but an end run around he wishes of the voters and which is full of loopholes that will allow hundreds more monstrosities just like those on Chapala.

11,000 voters rule

A Right To Vote vs A Right Vote : 3/6/2009

Who owns Santa Barbara? Private property owners and the government “own” the city. As far a having 11,000 signatures out of a population of 90,000 well so you have 11,000 misinformed people. This exemplifies the danger of an ignorant democracy. We see this in the welfare class and union members voting to raid the treasury. Here in SB it’s the ostrich mentality that votes fantasy rather than face reality. What the 11,000 signed up for was a lie pushed by a few obsessive anti development types who truly believe in the suburban model for a city. What you will get is the final coffin nail for an ordinance. So long great city, the vision of our ancestors, we have a new vision, one born out of our children, good bye symbols of achievement and greatness, hello mediocrity and madness.

AN50

Density doesn't work : 3/7/2009

This city is already great - or has been before the high density people began tearing away at it. Thanks to them we now have more crime, traffic congestion, air pollution and noise. We get fewer views, fewer locally owned shops along state street and less of a small town feel. Greatness is has nothing to do with size. It has to do with quality - something to development at all cost types seem to know absolutely nothing about.

Gordo

Another Talking Pointer Strikes Again! : 3/7/2009

Gordo you are full of it. The highest crime rates are in the low density single-family-dwelling zoned neighborhoods of the east and west sides. The higher density developments downtown may be higher relative to those higher crime low density neighborhoods but they are not high density. The current 60 foot building height limit has made sure there will be no high density development anywhere. Just square miles of moderate density low rise sprawl. When you grow a brain of your own and stop feeding at the talking points trough of the SB delusional club you will see what I mean, otherwise ignorance is bliss.

AN50

Density doesn't work : 3/7/2009

Sure, AN50. Now that you've been unable to make any logical arguments please feel free to keep making personal attacks. If it keeps you from kicking your dog or beating your wife/kids then please do keep getting it out of your system here. It still doesn't change a thing. Density doesn't work. Never has. Never will.

Gordo

The Empire Strikes Back : 3/7/2009

Ya Gordy that‘s a real logical argument ya got there huh? Tell you what, why don’t you show us all how it’s done and give us a logical reason why density doesn’t work. Feel free to impress us with your wit and intellect. Stop hiding that massive debating skill behind repetitious remarks that reveal nothing. I’ll take my cue from you, eh guy? Don’t worry about flattering yourself with lots of statistical data and facts while yer at big boy. Oh and don’t worry about embarrassing us old ad hominid remark throwing idiots. We’ll just shrink away when you put us to shame. Ya, yo mama, bring it on, tough guy!

AN50

AN50 & THE MINORITY OPINION : 3/8/2009

Hopefully Novembers vote will bring an end to this ugly attempt to turn S.B. into Dubai West . If you dont like it how it is then you can go to one of those places you think are better .

Gilbert

11000 Wrongs don't make a Right : 3/8/2009

You know if you limiters just shout louder you might actually believe the lunacy you preach. Nobody is trying for Dubai west, just trying to prevent idiots from making our downtown into a Ventura suburban shopping mall. If the low rise sprawling suburban feel appeals so much to you why don’t you go back to Ventura where you came from? There you can have miles of one and two story, low rise sprawling, low density, open air strip mall architecture. Most limiters are just jumping on the band wagon without a clue as to what it really means. Most limiters equate higher buildings with more development and higher densities, both assumptions are dead wrong. Building height is an aesthetic. It is personal and has no business being regulated by zoning laws or an ignorant voter population. Building heights should be regulated by professionals in urban design. Turning the downtown into some dead sterile trophy for your mantle piece is criminal. You can make whatever you want out of your irrational fear of development. You can use any excuse for your illogical and irrational justification for demonizing the way a building looks, but at the end of the day you are still wrong. Pearle Chase, God bless her, was wrong, her protégé today are wrong, the building height voters are wrong, the chants and shouts and irrational emotional reactions do not make one bit of difference, wrong is wrong and you are wrong. So keep bleating and follow that lemming, the cliff is near and soon you will join the others who travel your way.

AN50